Kiss the Gunner's Daughter

[thedungeonmaster]

Kiss the Gunner's Daughter : Tas'sadar's Personal Attack 3

(Piratish->English translation: A punishment - to be bent over one of the ship's guns and flogged.)
Tas'sadar's whip coils around the limbs of enemies, moving them to positions advantageous to Tas'sadar and his allies

Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirements: You must be wielding a whip.
Target: One creature not more than one size larger
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] plus Strength modifier damage and you slide the target 2 squares, target is also slowed until the end of your next turn.
Special: On a natural attack die roll of 20, target is dazed until the end of your next turn

[Neo|*|Origin]

Can this be revised to an At-Will (ref. Thorn Whip: PHB II - 85)?
(Yes, you can say "No" to this)

[thedungeonmaster]

I don't have the PHB II. So, what's the difference between Thorn Whip and this?

[Neo|*|Origin]

Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirements: You must be wielding a whip.
Target: One creature not more than one size larger
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] plus Strength modifier damage and you slide the target 2 squares, target is also slowed until the end of your next turn.
Special: On a natural attack die roll of 20, target is dazed until the end of your next turn


At-Will ✦ Implement, Primal
Druid Attack 1
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wis vs. Fort
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier damage, and you pull the target 2 squares.
Level 21: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier damage.

[thedungeonmaster]

There is quite a difference here.

The Druid's power is primal and has a fixed dmg, furthermore, it is a ranged attack.

Whereas, your warlord uses a melee weapon, and therefore, dmg is variable depending on the whip if it is enchanted. Plus, the target gets a special effect; whereas, the druid's power does not cause any other further effect.

Allowing it to be an at-will power would be quite an imbalance. However, I can allow it if there is no other further special effects other than sliding the target.

However, I think it's better for PCs to focus more on encounter and daily powers; because these powers are your inputs and making it at-will means a real test to the balance of the gameplay.

[Neo|*|Origin]

What if I adjust the suggestion:

Kiss the Gunner's Daughter : Tas'sadar's Personal Attack 3

Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirements: You must be wielding a whip.
Target: One creature not more than one size larger
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Hit: Slide the target 2 squares, target is also slowed until the end of your next turn.


This is my final proposal, if it still seems imbalanced, I will gladly accept the power to be only 1[w] + str mod + slide 2 (w/o effects).

[thedungeonmaster]

Erm your proposal is the same as the one I approved initially, except that now you are suggesting to do away with the dmg? Are you sure?

[Neo|*|Origin]

Ah, my bad. I meant it as an At-Will.

In any case, please determine what would be your most comfortable arrangement for:
1) an At-Will power to slide a foe
2) that causes a Condition-effect

I would negate any damage done for point 2.

[elijin]

Allow me to add a cents to this discussion.

A quick glance through all of the classes At-Will powers, and I found only the Wizard has an At-Will power which has a condition-effect to it. Ray of Frost - PHB (Pg159)
This does a fixed damage (1d6+ Intel mod) and target is slowed until end of next turn.
So, it is possible to have an At-Will power that has a slowed effect, but looking at the Ray of Frost example, the damage is fixed and there's only 1 condition-effect.

Looking at another Warlord At-Will power that has variable damage and 2 condition-effect, but with 1 penalty, is the Brash Assault. Its on Martial Power Pg 103. (If you remembered Edmund used this power often during the DnD Game Day)
Brash Assault is variable damage (1[W]+Str), but grants a penalty (target takes free action to attack Warlord). With the penalty there is 2 effects (Ally gets free attack with combat advantage)

I define sliding, free attacks as a condition-effect as well.

Hence to balance your customized At-Will power, and taking reference from the above, my opinion is either:
1) do fixed damage to target, condition-effect only
2) do variable damage to target, 1 movement condition-effect only (push, slide, pull)
3) take damage, 2 condition-effect. [either free attack / push,slide,pull / slowed]

The penalty for taking damage could be written in RPing as the opponent sees an opening, not knowing its a feint, hence not knowing what tricks you have up your sleeve. Also, this is to balance the fact that we cannot use the condition effect as often as we want. If there is no damage taken, 2 condition effect every round is quite gay.

[Neo|*|Origin]

Thanks for shedding light onto the issue Jin.

With the tactical intention for creating this power and given the balance issues highlighted by Jin, I'll decide on the following as discussed before:

1) Whip Only
2) Melee reach
3) 1[W]+Str Dmg
4) Slide target 2 squares
5) No incremental bonuses

I guess this will seem fine for an at-will now?

[thedungeonmaster]

The problem with Ray of Frost is that it is a ranged attack, so using it adjacent to enemies would give opportunity attacks against the wizard.

Secondly, the dmg is fixed because it is not weapon-based.

As mentioned in the Brash Assault, precisely it gives the warlord a chance to give two condition effects, they include a free opportunity attack against the warlord, because it is melee.

Therefore, in this case, Tas'sadar is using a melee attack, which will not grant any opportunity attack and yet allow him to cause an effect against the target.

Therefore, to balance it up, if it is at-will, I am fine with it but the use of this power would subject Tas'sadar to opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies; but the target is only slided 2 squares.

However, to have the slowed effect. I have only 3 options

1) the target makes an immediate saving throw; he is slowed upon failing
2) the target is not slowed at all
3) Tas'sadar has to spend a feat on the Improved version whereby he can make use of the slow effect. I believe in this way it is balanced abit, because Tas'sadar has to spend a feat point.

However, I would suggest Tas'sadar look carefully and make an insightful study before making a final cast on the decision.

That's the best I can think of to balance the gameplay effect.